Looks like the language wars are heating up again. Havoc is again arguing for using open-source Java in GNOME and Miguel has a response in favor of Mono. So, Novell has legitimate, non-evil reasons for not shipping Java which they *can* tell us about and Red Hat has legitimate, non-evil reasons for not shipping Mono which they *can't* tell us about. Somehow I think Novell is going to win this argument.